Hi Nightrider. I suspect you will get a lot of answers to this one but here is what I do. Understand, how much you put out at the beginning and what your total spread is should be based on your 401g balance (how much you have to gamble with) as well as your risk tolerance. I like to keep my initial spread at no more than 2% of my total 401g and preferably only 1%. That said, here is what my wife and I do when we have the dice (she is a GTC’er as well).

Pass Line with 5-10X odds and 2 come bets with 5-10X odds. We will replace each bet thats hit and on the 3rd hit, we will add another come bet with the same level of odds. In other words, after 3 hits we spread to a 4th number. On hit 5 we add a 4th come bet with odds and on hit 6 we have a come bet at all times. Also after the 4th hit, we will add $10 to the odds bet for every off and on if we are not already at table max for odds. Every now and then, we will have our initial 3 bets on the table and throw a few box numbers without a repeater so in those cases, if we throw 3 box numbers without a hit, we put out another come bet with 2-3X odds.

That’s how we do it whether we are playing alone or with each other. Hope that helps.

jb

Yes I’ll try it tonight

Does anyone ever use put bets to replace come bets that have been taken down when rolling a seven?

"TomR" wrote: Does anyone ever use put bets to replace come bets that have been taken down when rolling a seven?

TomR, I think the following post is a simple answer to your question.

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10584&p=31273&hilit#p31273

Here is the more complicated answer:
If you want to know how to calculate the house edge on a Put Bet you can use the following formulas:

Point of 6 or 8: (1/11)*(1/(1+odds))
Point of 5 or 9: (1/5)*(1/(1+odds))
Point of 4 or 10: (1/3)*(1/(1+odds))

So for example, with 5X odds the house edge for a Put Bet on the 6 or 8 would be: (1/11)*(1/(1+5)) = (1/11)*(1/6) = 1/66 = 1.52%
With 20X odds the house edge for a Put Bet on the 6 or 8 would be: (1/11)*(1/(1+20)) = (1/11)*(1/21) = 1/231 = 0.43%
The house edge for a Place Bet on the 6 or 8 is 1.52. Since a put bet with 5X odds has the same house edge as a place bet, make the place bet. At greater than 5X odds make a put bet on the 6 or 8.

🙂 🙁

Notice my smile and sad face Nightrider. Smile because it is a great question for everyone – sad because (and I know you can take this Dan) I ask myself if the way I am teaching betting at the seminar is working. I need the betting lecture to be understood and to be followed because as I say to everyone, betting is as important if not MORE important than learning the throw. With proper betting a student that doesn’t have an edge yet can stay in the game and make their buy in last longer.

So before I answer this question I am going to ask you and everyone else that has taken a seminar in the past two years – What can I do to make the betting lecture hit home maybe more than it does? Is it boring – does it not make sense – can we add more to it – Anything that comes to your mind and anyone else’s mind. You can email me at dom@goldentouchcraps.com with your comments. I ask anyone for this help.

Your comments are most welcome for two reasons – We all in GTC want all of you to be winners and you won’t be as great of a winner of you don’t follow our betting on your self and on random shooters. Second because GTC is a business and we want it to grow even bigger than it is. It won’t grow if our students don’t become great winners and spread the word and our students won’t become great winners if they don’t follow the betting.

Now for the answer – What Jawbones wrote is exactly what we teach – 3 working bets when you start – 1 passline with odds and 2 comebets with odds. What he said at the end as far as hitting box numbers and not collecting because they are not one of the comebets is also true.

I will add two more things – again what we said in class – waiting 3 collections before going to a 4th working bet is the conservative way. If you want to be more aggressive and your BR can handle it, wait for two collections before going to the 4th working bet. If you want to be VERY aggressive go here and ready "The Big Skinny". This was developed by Skinny and I play it often.

This is the original post on The Big Skinny:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1402&hilit

This was a follow up to a question asked by Finisher:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8096&p=22125&hilit

Here are two more posts by different folks with some additional takes on TBS:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2940&p=11772&hilit

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1904&hilit

Dom

Thanks Skinny,

I think I will continue to bring the come bet back with rolls not put bets.

TomR

To Dom, I don’t think the problem is in your presentation. I can only speak from my own experience. I am terrible at taking notes (always have been) and usually have (or had) no problems recalling information. I guess in my late 40’s, I am not as good as I once was. It happens to the best of us. Hahaha

When it comes to confusion on the merits of what you teach, I think it comes down to being used to thinking a certain way and having to adjust your thinking with all the information you provide. I believe, for me anyhow, that trying to be sure I was confident on using the information you put out there.

No complaints here.

"Wirenut" wrote: To Dom, I believe, for me anyhow, that trying to be sure I was confident on using the information you put out there.

No complaints here.

Thanks for the words and your impute Wirenut! I did find the above line interesting to me. Are you saying that the issue might be that students need to be convinced more? If so – any ideas on how to do that?

Dom

Dom It is just hard to get the Grambler out of ALL of them . If you do that with 1% that would be great . When I took the class I did what you and others said about not rolling at casino till class was finished . But I did see others not doing that and heard about others that bet all wrong even after taking a class before . This was before you started betting in class .I think that GTC has gotten better since the old days and it is because you and others are doing a Great job .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

It’s not that I need to be convinced. Maybe I am tend over analyze, but I want to make sure I understand the information before I will use it. I started a trend just recently because I could not recall if you said two or three Come bets. It was then that I was reminded of the percentage of spread to put at risk on a random roller.

Part of what Preacher says is also accurate. Getting people to stop gambling and start advantage playing, it’s like trying to write with your opposite hand, you can probably do it, but it takes some getting used to. At least that has been my experience, anyhow. It’s not your presentation, or the information you are teaching. From my perspective, I am attempting to be sure I fully understand your approach before I would implement it. That is actually normal for me on any strategy.

Thanks for the kind words Finisher. We have changed the seminar a lot and I owe it all to the great partners and instructors we have

Dom

Please forgive me if two posts appear as a response. It’s been a chaotic day and I am in an area of the country with not always the most reliable cell service. I attempted to post a response earlier, but it doesn’t seem to have gone through.

Once again, I can only speak for me. It is not that I need convincing and it’s not that I didn’t think you didn’t present your materials well enough. For me to adopt the GTC method of.play as an advantage player, I want to be fluent in it. I don’t want to feel like I am fumbling and bumbling my way around the table trying to "remeber what Dom said". On 11/3, I began a thread asking about the number of Come bets because I could not recall whether it was two or three. That’s not on GTC, that’s on me. Fortunately, this forum was an opportunity to get clarification, at which time I was reminded of playing 25% of spread on RR’s. You presented the material fine, the fact that I take terrible notes is not your fault. You have the Craps pedigree, you don’t need to convince me that you have what it takes to be successful.

I also think Finisher (forgive me for calling you Preacher in my earlier post) has a point as well. You said it yourself, we are trying to get rid of the gambler and become advantage players. That being said, that transition can come with some growing pains. It’s like trying to write with your opposite hand. You can do it, but it comes off as awkward at first. After practicing both throwing and betting as an Advantage player, it starts to become more second nature.

I would do this with any new strategy that I am introduced to. I will usually practice on my phone app, then I will practice on my rig at home until I feel comfortable that I have it figured right. To coin a phrase I have heard more than once in my life, it’s not you, it’s me.

I have had nothing but positive ravings about my experience with GTC from my Oct primer class and am anxiously waiting for GTC to get back to AC for my refresher class. If your material or teaching style was lacking, Dom, you wouldn’t know it from me. Ask Pit Boss and Midnight about the review I wrote in a Facebook forum on Dice Setting first thing that Monday morning.

Sorry for the long rant. Just want to be sure I am saying it.clearly.

Wire, you could not have said it better. It does take a while to get all the GTC concepts into your head (and the old gambler concepts 08t) so that you can become the advantage player you will become if you practice, practice,practice—-and practice correctly. If you are simply throwing the dice down the your table or practice rig, you will only develop bad habits which are generally very hard to break.

In the beginning of this journey to advantage play—and it is a never ending journey and not a destination–it is difficult to get rid of old habits such as:

1. Always place the 6 and 8 so you don’t have to roll the number twice to have a payday. Baloney!!
2. I always like to "hedge" my bets so I lose less. A really bad idea since you have 2 bets on the table both with negative expectations.
3. If the roller (generally a random roller) is hitting a lot of hard 4’s I should get on that number big time as it is a hot number.
4. When you or a GTC player you knows has the dice, always to a regression after a number hits so you will lose less. You have an advantage over the house and you want to lower your bet!!!

Doc

You get the idea.

Just one thing Wire – I said to bet a MAX of 25% of your spread on a RR – that doesn’t mean you should. Betting LESS than 25% or not betting at all on a RR is the best.

Dom

[quote="Dominator"]:) 🙁

Notice my smile and sad face Nightrider. Smile because it is a great question for everyone – sad because (and I know you can take this Dan) I ask myself if the way I am teaching betting at the seminar is working. I need the betting lecture to be understood and to be followed because as I say to everyone, betting is as important if not MORE important than learning the throw. With proper betting a student that doesn’t have an edge yet can stay in the game and make their buy in last longer.

So before I answer this question I am going to ask you and everyone else that has taken a seminar in the past two years – What can I do to make the betting lecture hit home maybe more than it does? Is it boring – does it not make sense – can we add more to it – Anything that comes to your mind and anyone else’s mind. You can email me at dom@goldentouchcraps.com with your comments. I ask anyone for this help.

Your comments are most welcome for two reasons – We all in GTC want all of you to be winners and you won’t be as great of a winner of you don’t follow our betting on your self and on random shooters. Second because GTC is a business and we want it to grow even bigger than it is. It won’t grow if our students don’t become great winners and spread the word and our students won’t become great winners if they don’t follow the betting.

Now for the answer – What Jawbones wrote is exactly what we teach – 3 working bets when you start – 1 passline with odds and 2 comebets with odds. What he said at the end as far as hitting box numbers and not collecting because they are not one of the comebets is also true.

I will add two more things – again what we said in class – waiting 3 collections before going to a 4th working bet is the conservative way. If you want to be more aggressive and your BR can handle it, wait for two collections before going to the 4th working bet. If you want to be VERY aggressive go here and ready "The Big Skinny". This was developed by Skinny and I play it often.

This is the original post on The Big Skinny:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1402&hilit

This was a follow up to a question asked by Finisher:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8096&p=22125&hilit

Here are two more posts by different folks with some additional takes on TBS:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2940&p=11772&hilit

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1904&hilit

Dom[/quote. ,,,,, Dom your links here do not work on my home computer or cell ,,,p.s send me your home address in pm and I will send you some jerky got 6 deer so far and it’s only 3rd day of gun season

Just tried the links – right click on them and say open in a new tab and it should work
LMK

Dom

Nightrider, perhaps the format below will work better for you?

"Dominator" wrote:

This is the original post on The Big Skinny:

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1402&hilit

This was a follow up to a question asked by Finisher:

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8096&p=22125&hilit

Here are two more posts by different folks with some additional takes on TBS:

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2940&p=11772&hilit

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1904&hilit

Dom

"Skinny" wrote: Nightrider, perhaps the format below will work better for you?

[quote="Dominator"]

This is the original post on The Big Skinny:

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1402&hilit

This was a follow up to a question asked by Finisher:

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8096&p=22125&hilit

Here are two more posts by different folks with some additional takes on TBS:

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2940&p=11772&hilit

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1904&hilit

Dom

. The big skinny just says Bump for all too see
And the other topics say No posts exist inside this topic for the selected time frame so what’s going on just me or what???

"Nightrider" wrote: [quote="Skinny"]Nightrider, perhaps the format below will work better for you?

[quote="Dominator"]

This is the original post on The Big Skinny:

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1402&hilit

This was a follow up to a question asked by Finisher:

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8096&p=22125&hilit

Here are two more posts by different folks with some additional takes on TBS:

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2940&p=11772&hilit

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1904&hilit

Dom

. The big skinny just says Bump for all too see
And the other topics say No posts exist inside this topic for the selected time frame so what’s going on just me or what???

I have a feeling you are not getting the entire link when you click on it for some reason. Does the link separate or go onto the second line so that it is broken in two?

"Bump for all too see" is the last post by Dom in The Big Skinny thread. That thread has 60 posts in it and you are only getting the 60th post which is on the sixth page of that long thread.

If part of the link is cut off in the other links you would see the message "No post exists" because you do not have the entire link.

In any event try copying the entire link and pasting it into the address bar of your browser, ie. the box where you type www. and the website you want to go to.

If that does not work, then copy what you have in the address bar and paste it into your next post on this topic so I can see what you are actually getting.

Actually you can look at the link in my post and see if that is what appears in your address bar when you click on it. If not then that is the problem. Be sure you have the exact link from my post in your address bar.

Specifically be sure you have the stuff at the end of each link. In the first one it reads: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1402&hilit

Each link ends with viewtopic.php?f= and then it has some more stuff at the end of it. You need all that gibberish at the end to get to the post.

Gibberish and stuff – those are my technical terms.

One more thing. It all has to be one continuous link without any spaces in between the letters, numbers and special characters. If your link is "broken" it may all be in the address bar. But if there are any blank spaces in the address it will not find the proper address.

still getting the same thing even a different computer it say the big skinny post for all to see dom and page
1 post • Page 1 of 1 and you said there is 60 posts

You do not have the right address in the address bar.

Copy and paste the address in your address bar into a post so I can see what you are getting wrong. Do you know how to copy and paste? If not get someone to show you how.

let us know Night Rider

Dom

Yesterday, at a Bossier City casino, my throw was fine, but my first 10 only had 1 repeater where I had a come bet. It wasn’t until I had come bets on all box numbers that I started getting collections. It doesn’t work this way for me most times, but often enough.

So, next hand, I established my 1st point, I decided to place my starting bet, $30, on the 5 remaining numbers – as an experiment. Of course, as each number hit, it was converted to a come bet for the same amount. As before, I was all over the box numbers. This hand, though, was only 15+. On completion, I think I was up maybe $60 vs come bets only.

I decided that based on those results, the 5 early Place bets were not worth the risk of an early 7-out. It committed me to all 6 box numbers, whether I hit them or not, AND it takes two collections, that way, for a profit.

Interesting experiment, though.

Preacher, you are correct if your have a pass line bet and the other 5 numbers as place/buy bets, if you have a quick 7 out ( and yes it does happen with the best of GTC players, instructors included) it really puts you in the hole and it can take a while to get back to even. I have seen it happen to other players many times.

Remember we are in this for the long run with bets with lowest house edge.

Rose and Doc

still doesn’t work click on or copy paste other people click on links above and let me know if it works for you.

Copy and paste the address you are using from the address bar on your computer into your next post so I can see what you are doing. I need to see the exact link you are getting on your computer to be able to help you.

"Skinny" wrote: Copy and paste the address you are using from the address bar on your computer into your next post so I can see what you are doing. I need to see the exact link you are getting on your computer to be able to help you.

the big skinny,,,,,,,,,,
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1402&hilit

This was a follow up to a question asked by Finisher:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8096&p=22125&hilit

Here are two more posts by different folks with some additional takes on TBS:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2940&p=11772&hilit
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1904&hilit

"Nightrider" wrote: [quote="Skinny"]Copy and paste the address you are using from the address bar on your computer into your next post so I can see what you are doing. I need to see the exact link you are getting on your computer to be able to help you.

the big skinny,,,,,,,,,,
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1402&hilit

This was a follow up to a question asked by Finisher:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8096&p=22125&hilit

Here are two more posts by different folks with some additional takes on TBS:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2940&p=11772&hilit
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1904&hilit

what you see in last post is not how i copied and pasted it changed it once it posted this is what it said but i had to separate it so it wouldn’t change it
http: // www . goldentouchcasino .net /forum /viewtopic .php?f= 5&t= 1402 &hilit

You can not separate the address. Without the spaces that you added that link works fine.

The links in the post above all work fine as well.

If you double-click on them they should work for you.